(insert Gregory's two cents) Big All has a point if you include our participation with the BANKERS SYSTEM.But if you deposit your money in a bank you are actually loaning the banker money. You are a banker first so you are the problem too. But does every one participate? [more on banking]

(Lyle) But you said above, "WE WON, THE LAND IS OURS." So to h*ll with his law.

(insert Gregory's two cents) It doesn't work that way in the law of nations. This was a trial by combat over specific issues. Like the battle of Hastings all claims did not stop transfer with William's victory. Many a Saxon still was free and his home was his castle.
We still honored Spanish land grants and rights after the war with Mexico.

(Lyle) Actually it would be "irrevocable trust." Isn't that sort of an "OXYMORON?" Can something placed in trust be "not recoverable?" What would the purpose of such foolishness be? Does a trust not get broken, surrendered, or folded stapled and mutilated by an act of WAR? Please be serious in your response. NOTE TO ALL: James has stated previously that "WE WON, THE LAND IS OURS." Does that not apply to these trusts? Hmmmm?

(insert Gregory's two cents) If a trust can be made it can be unmade. It is only irrevocable from a certain point of view. It is often dependent on who holds the contract upon which the trust is based and who is the protector of the trust.. (See below.)

There was a trust and a contract.
The King was to protect from foreign invasion and could collect certain taxes to finance that effort.
But
He brought in foreign troops and imposed taxes beyond his authority. = unwarranted usurpation

There still was a trust in affect. But with who?

(James) Nor did we kill the king and his heirs, thereby taking possession of his lands. This is only way we could, or can have allodial title to this land, the only other way under the king's common law for us to posess title to this land is by lessor title and grant.

(insert Gregory's two cents) Actually we did kill the king or someone did.
The first Charter of Charles I was written with an offer in mind. There was a revolution in England at the time. Roundheads and the Wigs... The king new the Puritans were turning the tide. He had a plan. Make a Charter where they could have a shot at freedom in America and it will divide his protagonists. Then Cromwell beat him anyway, established an English Republic and tried the King, then cut his head off at White Hall.
Royalists swarmed to America where Cromwell was compelled to send troops across the sea to protect the 'American republics'.

Answers:******************

"He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance... For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally, the Forms of our Governments:" Thomas Jefferson D of I

In the spring before independence was declared by the colonies in 1776, the various states gathered in local assemblies to hammer out laws by which they would govern themselves. The King had broken his contract. Connecticut and Rhode Island simply rewrote their old colonial charters, ex-ing out any references to the king and parliament. But the remaining states drafted entirely new constitutions.

Lyle' asked, "You were there? What was it like? "

Well Lyle, let me tell you what they said.

Even before the so called American revolution the united States found that, "Natural law was the first defense of colonial liberty." Also, "There was a secondary line upon which much skirmishing took place and which some Americans regarded as the main field of battle. The colonial charters seemed to offer an impregnable defense against abuses of parliamentary power because they were supposed to be compacts between the king and people of the colonies; which, while confirming royal authority in America, denied by implication the right of Parliament to intervene in colonial affairs. Charters were grants of the king and made no mention of the parliament. They were even thought to hold good against the King, for it was believed that the King derived all the power he enjoyed in the colonies from the compacts he had made with the settlers. Some colonists went so far to claim that they were granted by the 'King of Kings'-and therefore 'no earthly Potentate can take them away.'" (The Other Side of the Question, by a Citizen, New York, 1774, 16)

There may be many who would disagree with this statement but I would suggest that when the powers that would be began to manipulate American perception of history, information concerning the Charters was the first to go.

Remember that neither the Americas or the kings were homogenous groups. Charles I's Reign ended with the plop of his head in a basket. Charles II, known as 'Good Time Charley',' was the son of a Catholic and the head of the Church of England. Charles II granted the Pennsylvania Charter in payment of debt to William Pen(nington). A debt he could not have paid otherwise. When William went to collect the debt he refused to take off his hat in the presence of the King which could have lost him his head. The king said that one of them should remove his hat, so he did and agreed to the Charter.

Note: The First Charter of Carolina. 1662. CHARLES II" 18th.P. And because it may happen that some of the people and inhabitants of the said Province, cannot in their private opinions, conform to the publick exercise of religion, according to the liturgy form and ceremonies of the Church of England, or take and subscribe the oath and articles, made and established in that behalf, and for that the same, by reason of the remote distances of these places, will, we hope, be no breach of the unity and uniformity established in this nation; ..."

Who were these guys who would not take oaths and why did the king hope for no breach. Those are not the words of a lord in a contract where he holds all the cards. There was authority slipping from [and had slipped] these Kings. These Charters did not grant freedom but they allowed for the opportunity to obtain free dominion = freedom. This was a period of great unrest in the world and England had imposed the Oath of Supremacy in order to insure loyalty. Catholics were required to take it before entering Virginia according to the Charter of Virginia. 1606

There were many who would not take it including Quakers and Separatists.

John Adams said that when the grantees of the "Massachusetts Bay Charter carried it to America they 'got out of the English realm, dominions, state, empire, call it by what name you will, and out of the legal jurisdiction of the Parliament. The king might, by his writ or proclamation, have commanded him to return; but he did not. By this interpretation, the charters accorded Americans' all the rights and privileges of a natural free-born subject of Great Britain and gave colonial assemblies the sole right of imposing taxes."( Principles and Acts of the Revolution, edited by H. Niles, 16.)

"Accordingly, when Americans were told that they had no constitutional basis for their claim of execution from parliamentary authority, they answered, 'Our Charters have done it absolutely.' 'And if one protests,' remarked a Tory, 'the answer is, You are an Enemy to America, and ought to have your brains beat out.' Pennsylvania Journal and Weekly Advertiser, September 4, 1766, Supplement."(3 174-175 Origins of the American Revolution by John C. Miller.)

Almost from the beginning of English settlement, the government permitted the tradition of local liberty to take such firm root in America that Alexander Hamilton could say in 1775 that 'the rights we now claim are coeval with the original settlement of these colonies.' (The Works of Alexander Hamilton, edited by Henry Cabot Lodge, New York, 1904, I, 172. 9 Ibid., March 31, 1768.)

Samuel Adams stated, on August 1, 1776 within one month of the signing of the Declaration of Independence, "Our Union is complete; our constitution composed, established, and approved. You are now the guardians of your own liberties. We may justly address you, as the decemviri did the Romans, and say: 'Nothing that we propose can pass into law without your consent. Be yourself, O Americans, the authors of those laws on which your happiness depends.'"

The early Americans let the Facts be submitted to a candid world in their Declaration of Independence as they stood against the King of Great Britain. Their complaint was not due to taxation without representation as is popularly taught in public schools. They did speak of an absolute Despotism and that it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. That new Guard became the state malitia, but now has been replaced by a federal army and soon a U.N. police force. So what was the history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny. The list is long and numerous and sounds like a description of life in these United States, but it does included taxes imposed without consent. "For imposing taxes on us without our Consent:"(The Declaration of Independence 6 Spooner v. McConnell, 22 Fed. Cas. 939, 943.)

"The term ` sovereign power' of a state is often used without any very definite idea of its meaning, and it is often misapplied... The sovereignty of a state does not reside in the persons who fill the different departments of its government, but in the People, from whom the government emanated; and they may change it at their discretion. Sovereignty, then, in this country, abides with the constituency, and not with the agent; and this remark is true, both in reference to the federal and state government."(Spooner v. McConnell, 22 Fed. Cas. 939, 943.)

The problem here again is taking a statement out of the context of time, when it was said. Who were the 'People, from whom the government emanated'?

"We are not contending that our rabble, or all unqualified persons, shall have the right of voting, or not be taxed; but that the Freeholders and electors, whose right accrues to them from the common law, or from charter, shall not be deprived of that right."The Works of Alexander Hamilton, edited by Henry Cabot Lodge, N Y, 1904, I, 172. 9 Ibid., March 31, 1768. "The United States government is a foreign corporation with respect to a state." (In re Merriam, 36 N.E.505, 141 N.Y. 479, affirmed 16 S. Ct. 1073, 163 U.S. 625, 41L.Ed 287; 20 CJS, S 1785.)

It was the people who owned land. The Separatist owned land and the Royalists and the average farmer in America owned land not entered in the English Doomsday book of surveyed property of the crown to which subjects could only own legal title.

If you only have legal title you don't own land, You are not a freeman and therefore are subjects.

The United States is virtually a part of that which England is a part.It is not just the British Empire but the UN holy Roman Empire. Someone needs to establish land outside their system and the only way that will be successful is if it is done in the name of the Church established by Jesus 2000 years ago.

""Where, Say Some, is the king of America? I'll tell you, Friend, he reigns above, and doth not make havoc of mankind like the royal brute of Great Britain. Yet that we may not appear to be defective even in earthly honours, let a day be solemnly set apart for proclaiming the charter; let it be brought forth placed on divine law, the Word of God; let a crown be placed thereon, by which the world may know, that so far as we approve of monarchy, that in America the law is king. For as in absolute governments the king is law, so in free countries the law ought to be king; and there ought to be no other. But lest any ill use should afterwards arise, let the crown at the conclusion of the ceremony be demolished, and scattered among the People whose right it is."" Thomas Paine's Common Sense.

US is a colony of the British kings but the Church is the colony of Jesus the Christ.

Gregory at the ekklesi-@presys.com http://presys.com/~ekklesia/welcome.htm home page

P. S. If any of you have actually read down this far and you know the name and address of any unregistered Church please send me what information you have on it or them. Thanks.

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